Just using you as an example.  Besides, watching you try to take him down got me started playing WOW. 

Atar's cousin, although we don't claim each other in RL.

I'm all for it.  I've not really felt comfortable going to mALT
becuase it is filled with people who have been to BT, Hyjal, etc. and
spend atleast 9 hours a week raiding; and when the biggest thing u've
ever done was kara where everyone was in t5-t6, mALT is kind of
intimidating. (point and alugh at me if u want to, I really don't care).  Seems like everyone has the fight memerized and I'm the
one thats like, "Hey, its only my first-second time, mind explaining
what is going to happen" Not trying to say mALT is bad or anything, I
personally loved the idea.  It was just simply intimidating.

I'm
not saying everyone that is signing up for this feels the same way I
do.  I just see it as a chance for me to learn some things step by
step, which IS the way Atar started (was sitting behind him watching
him try and down the first boss in Kara and not getting it until the
next night). 

Once again, I know I will need the gear to get
into the higger instances and stuff but the MAIN reason is the raid
experience.  Just learning the boss fights, the pulls, etc.  any if we
get a 25 man together and we learn how to play smart and effectively,
We may have a 3rd fulltime raid come WOTLK.

Atar's cousin, although we don't claim each other in RL.

Atar's cousin, although we don't claim each other in RL.

i dont participate in the 25 mans because of my schedule with work & that  I work all night shift & im also on the east coast. So i have to go into work around the time that the main raids are getting started going. Every once in a while I'm off of friday like today & would love to fill in with something but spend most the day in bed trying to get some more rest. Being pregnant & working all night shift is kicking my ass. Trying to get back on my old rotating shift but grrr.. the plant managers are assholes.

regardless. 3-4 days a week although isnt much but my daughter & her schoolwork & housework comes first & god knows I never have the time to get it all done. and with a baby on the way i'd hate to get started doing a 25 man & then have to drop out once i have the baby.

As far as 10 mans KZ or ZA hit me up im always on on the weekends. Deleyna has the healing gear & tanking gear needed for those & ask anyone I'm willin to respec if needed.

Oh & thanks for that great training I needed Grasen LOL it did help me. And he aint lying about threat! LOL u were there fel. At first I was like OMFG how am i gonna do this but i just did what i had to do. It was fun

Well Felsteel, I cannot commit in any fashion, but if you want some tactics from a tanking and dps side, give me a holler.

Last comment I'll make here, as I've already made my point -

You can't just do this for you, Felsteel.  If you want to raid in 25-mans, and in particular if you want to LEAD THE RAID, you can't be in this for yourself.

As a raid leader, and I know that Garreth, Atar, Grasen, Aidin, and others who have led any raids of any size can attest to this - you HAVE to be willing to put aside your personal wants for the group.  Leading a raid means you have to deal with the inevitable bullshit when someone's butt gets hurt because so-and-so got an item when they themself did not.  It means you get to stay up late after raid talking to overly-emotional wrecks because they felt they were mistreated.  You get to show up early to make sure you have enough of the crap that you (and the raid) need in order to pull it off.

You have to be more patient, more understanding, and more calm with people because they will readily take anything you say the wrong way.  You also have to be forceful and stern because keeping 24 people on-task for upwards of four hours is hard to do.

In short, leading a raid isn't about *you*, it's about the success of your team.  You have to be ready to sacrifice a LOT to be a raid leader. 

lol grasen thats the entire idea hahaha and about the numbers of players if i want it bad enough ill make it happen! if its not supposed to be the so be it

196 accounts.

Let's assume half of those don't raid.  That makes it 98 accounts that constitute raiders.

Of those raiders, let's pretend maybe 10-20 of those don't really do 25man raids (e.g. Leighann, Deleyna).  That brings the number down to approx. 83 accounts.

Of those 83 accounts, 50 of them are accounted for in Hamfist and LF1M.  You're down to 33 eligible accounts.

Of those 33 eligible accounts, at least 10-20 are relied upon as fill-ins (e.g. Vulk, Alydis, Capnopants, Dikymo).  That brings the amount of eligible raiders (assuming they even wanted to raid) to 13.  That's enough for a 10-man, not enough for 25. 

Again, Felsteel, I ask you -

Who, other than you, wants to do a 25-man raid that:

1)  Isn't already in Hamfist/LF1M

2)  Is in guild

3)  Has the gear to do 25-man raids

4)  Has the time to do 25-man raids

5)  Has the dedication to not fuck around

Assuming you end up having to use Hamfist/LF1M alts, can you find a time that does not:

1)  Interfere with Hamfist?

2)  Interfere with LF1M?

3)  Interfere with mAlt Gruul's/Magtheridon?

4)  Interfere with SSC/TK Smash and Grab?

5)  Interfere with the various 10-man raids that people enjoy doing on their alts?

It's not a matter of us saying "NO YOU CAN'T DO IT!"  It's more a matter of us saying "How are you actually GOING to do it?"

And before you mention it, I highly doubt that Garreth would approve of /ginviting a bunch of random people just to fill a THIRD raid.  We're 400 members already, we don't need 40-50 more just to fill a raid that will only be going for 3 months or so.

And yes, it takes 40-50 people to staff one 25-man raid. 

i honestly dont see anything blocking me from becomeing a 25-man raid but thats a later issue, for now ima get my feet wet with the 10-man. no offense to Hamfist or LF1M and there awesome members but ima try and keep members from those raids out of the raid as much as possiable. from time to time if fillers are needed and the back-ups are not online ill call on you guys i hope you understand, but if my healers and tanks need to step it up ill be sure to call on ya grasen

I think we should wait till wrath then do a 10 man Progression raid, 25 at this point would be very hard. People are also less willing to push to progress near an xpac I've found. But I think if we could get the people together it would be cool.

-----------------------------

Special with a CoH

living with you is like living in a living nightmare!

Getting a 10-man run is easy and I totally back you up.

Getting a third 25-man progression-minded raid is a terrible idea though.

Yes, it's "negative" but it's also realistic.  I still have yet to see 24 like-minded guildies who are geared and knowledgeable enough to support a new 25-man raid, that are also available to raid, will actually show up, and *aren't* already involved in LF1M or Hamfist.

You can call on me as backup whenever I'm online, but unless your raid is before mAlt on Sat's (until I get WAY geared..... which means WotLK), or after 8p servertime on Friday's I won't be able to commit as one of your main raiders.

I'm still trying to get Pedran leveled so he can start tanking once he's 70 though.  :p

btw, just so you know, my post wasn't intented to be negative.  I just wanted to make sure you got the support of the guild officers before running with anything.  :D

Since everyone else is being "that guy" I will the "that other guy"

I cannot imagine that a new raid would over lap in content. I believe the real issues a new raid would face are:

- Competing with the weekend mALT raids (SSC/TK) due to similar content and locked raiders.

- Finding a time when nothing is going on and people are able to raid will be tough.

- To get enough people together, you may need to utilize alts... which always raises the loot drama potential... a mALT2.

As the others have said, starting a new raid requires work... especially when only a minority of the guild comes to the guild forums... but it can be done.

I don't think recruiting just to start a third raid is a good idea.

Good luck! I will love to help out any way I can.

I know mAlt does Gruul and Mag on Sunday's, how often else are they run?  I think that might be a good start since mAlt and Atar already cover KZ and ZA each week.

Like Friday nights or something........

(Fjork hopes no-one ever notices his buffing for the one night a week he's online reliably over the rest of the week)