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A warrior's pain

Gares of War's picture

Gares of War — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 11:43

         So, I have been waiting for all of these "grand" changes to the warrior talent tress.  So far I have only been impressed with Fury, I find arms to be a lawl tree and, while I am sure they mean well, have done little to fix its many problems.  Protection was on a good road, but then they felt threatened by removal of the Blessing of Salvation (by their own whims) they are too busy trying increase damage and threat, thatour rage mechanic will suffer the SAME ridiculous problems it faced in the first expansion.

         This is just a rant, I may try to fix it up and place it in a less trolled aspect of the forums.

ARMS

It was originally a pvp tree with some 2 hander emphasis.  I fear Blizzard has no idea what they want to have in this tree.  I still think rend is useless and nany attempt to give us a useful bleed buff effect in tier one has been rejected I believe 5 times.

For what the second tier is worth, I feel it is alright, I find it odd that it lacks any form of dps buff and it is for grinding and tanking.

 Tier 3 is fine.  I still think overpower and rend synergy needs work. 

One of the most sorry switches was the removal of stalwart defender (Rage gained from parry and blocks) and the addition in the arms try of Justified killing.  Come now, how many times do you parry in arenas or pvp, furthermore, in a PVE setting, you will be killed if you tank (unless you are Gares).  I find a tanking rage buff in arms to be ridiculous.

Tier 5 is fine.  Mace with armor reduction defeated its use in pvp.  I find that to be counter intuitive, but the change may be useful for the pvp gear wearers you fight.

 I find tier 6 to be a filler step.  Execute when the opponent is at full life is cute, but really, I have found a mortla strike or whirlwind to do almost as much damage for less rage.  Hamstring stuns are sort of cheap but no one every really compalined.  I always disliked imp intercept here.  They changed this with weapon mastery because they thought immune to diarm was overpowered.  But witht he current mentality of Blizzard, they want us in battle stance over berserker stance so why should this skill be there.

Tier 7-Imp slam is a treaty, fury never needed it.  The other talents are alright onyl because the point requirements are low.

Tier 8-Imp Mortal strike is actually useful.  I think 4% strength increase is weak, I am angry about the fact Paladins get 15% at tier 1.  I probably would never mention this aspect to Blizzard forums, because I would rather not see a Paladin nerf.

Tier 9-VEry useless buffs to damage ratio.  Blood fenzy was nerfed to prevent arms/fury hybrids.  Then they placed the nerf version two tiers higher; how does this make sense?  Also, trauma is equal (less than equal as Saedo pointed out to me) to Mangle.  If you have a feral druid tank, then this ability may override their ability to tank.  I find a tier 9 ability should be more than a tier 7 personally.

Edit-They swapped Trauma and Sudden death- I think sudden death is now worse off, but I still fear the trauma efffect on overriding the mangle effect.

Tier 10 and 11 are alright, it was a good direction to increase damagem, but still, a disarmed bladestormer is a useless 6 seconds.

 

Fury

I really have no beefs with fury.  Warriors will be competing with feral druids for spots because we have the SAME abilities which I find foolish.  If they nerf titan's grip in the slightest, people will opt not to use it though as simple as that, unless you are a bad warrior (not 100% true, a reduction in top end damage by a small smount would be tolerable, but the haste nerf would be inexcusiable).

 Protection

My concerns are for 5 mans primarily.  They returned shield specialization to 1 rage per block, but removed the rage increase from oparries and dodges or blocks (I forget which).  I never had a problem with aggro.  I like vigilance, but the newer talent-warbringer is as absurd as the imp intercept.  Tanking should be done in defensive stance, but why would we switch stances for 10-20 rage then switch back and OMG lose all the rage because of our stance dance rage loss.  It should be in Arms.  I feel that we are too rage starved except in 10-25 mans and that is because bossess will hit for 9-15k.

Now, maybe they think you will not be tanking as prot in five mans.  Thiscould be true, but I fear there will be a void where prot and dps specs will be unable to tank.  While I am certain dps specs can viably tank normal 5 mans.  I do not see them with the survivability (initially until high end gear) to tank heroics.  Ont he same note, I do not see prot tanks generating threat due to rage starvation.

Abilities

I find a few problems with the new buff stacking.  First, battle shout will be equal to imp might.  If this means improved blessing of might is greater than imp battle shout; essentially we have a worthless buff save for personal use.  I don't care for the idea that I have a 2 minute buff that requires constant rage use to maintain to be equal to a one time per fight buff which can be remana'd up.  I am sorry, 3 minutes if I take booming shout (equal to improved rend as the worse talents a warrior can spec into IMO).

Enraged regeneration is a useful idea.  It will help with solo grinding.  Many warriors on the forums want their instant attack back, but fail to see the advantage of a personal hot.  Granted, 3 minute cooldown is a bit high for how specific the requirements are to use it.

Weapon Throw-Excellent idea,  it allows warriors to pull again.  I always wanted something to fight a deadly throw rogue with.

Bloodbath-Honestly, I don't know what to say about this ability.  It basically is useless in raid due to the disruption of crowd control and the damage is minimal for arenas/pvp.  I guess boss fights and AOE farming, but I don't see how it will be more useful than other abilities available.

Disarm/shield breaker- If they can be used on bosses than they can be amazing.  The reduction to block/damage increase is more viable than the now useless blood frenzy.

 

 

I will add more later, but if anyone has an idea add it to this thread.  This may have been better placed in the warrior guides but MEH!

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UPDATE: As many of us have

Kybosh — Thu, 09/11/2008 - 09:54

UPDATE:

As many of us have feared, the dreaded nerf to Titan's Grip as come:  To the tune of a 15% miss penalty on yellow attacks.   (This includes Bloodthirst)

 Now, based on reading some of the developer's comments, I believe they're reasoning behind this was that TG was too powerful for a one-point talent, even if it was the 51 point end talent for fury.  Unfortunately, I believe they've gone too far.  Some dps feedback I've seen since the nerf puts Lv80 warriors in LV80 gear somewhere around the 1200-1400 dps range on a boss.  Considering I'm pusing 2000 at lv 70, that's pretty pathetic.  

I'm not too worried, however, because I believe this will change. One solution would be to change Titan's Grip back to a 5 point talent, with a decreasing miss penalty for each point spent on the talent.  That would balance out blizzards concerns over it being too powerful for one point spent.  

Ironically, the way things are now, speccing heavily in protection now nets the greatest dps increase.  Although the idea of leveling as prot being a viable way to go seems interesting, I hope its not the only viable option once the expansion is released.

Anyway, this is just me thinking out loud.  I'd love to hear what some other downfall warriors think about some of these changes.

 Thanks,

Kybosh (POW!)

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Shihli is right.  Things

Kybosh — Tue, 09/09/2008 - 08:34

Shihli is right.  Things are constantly being changed. 

The newest beta build has given significant improvements to the protection tree.  Most feedback I've seen about prot tanking has said that, not only is it very viable (both for single target, and AOE tanking) but it's REALLY FUN!

I still have a lot of concerns about the other two trees.  I'm happy to see blizzard attempting to make Arms less of a straight PvP tree, and making it more PVE viable. I like their attempt at making bleed effects a central component of the build (especially considering the nerf to blood frenzy).  If done properly, arms warriors could provide some very nice debuffs.

Fury looks promising, but it still needs some work.  Considering the dps example's i've seen from some Lv 80 10-man naxx runs, I don't understand why blizzard thinks they need to Nerf Titan's Grip, as dps warriors have not made a decent showing with Raid dps.

I would really like to see blizzard do to Arms and Fury what they did to Prot, which is clean up the tree and make it a lot more streamlined.  Both trees have a lot of unnessesary "fluff" talents that nobody is interested in.  Get rid of them.  Almost every talent in the prot tree is useful, the same cannot be said of the other two trees.

I would also like to take this opportunity to officially declare that Kybosh will remain my main raiding character in Wrath.  I know I have mentioned in the past that I was considering changing to my priest, but I am too emotionally invested in Kybosh to make a switch.  Be it tanking or dps'ing, Kybosh will be an active presence in Downfall.

Thank you for reading my wall of text.

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garreth's picture

IT'S

garreth — Tue, 09/09/2008 - 08:59
IT'S KYBOSH

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Yes; analogies, it turns out, can sometimes be used to draw parallels between things that are not exactly the same." - Ratgirl

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Shihli's picture

I wouldn't write off

Shihli — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 23:05

I wouldn't write off warriors just yet, considering Blizzard hasn't released the expac yet.

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but it's the mechanic that

Keisjaa — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 15:07

but it's the mechanic that pisses off warriors we are completely kitable as we can really do nothing when rooted away from a target(druids/frost mages piss me off)

I'm with Gares on the overall feel of the trees, arms seems so lackluster, fury seems to be the "raid DPS" tree, & prot is well...prot hard to really make it into something that it's not

 I'm also wondering if the changes to thunderclap etc will make it as easy to aoe grind as it is for a prot pally

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Sparhax's picture

As long as it is not a

Sparhax — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 15:07

As long as it is not a ranged spell interupt/silence.  That stuff is bull@#$%^. 

 

 

Have you felt the spar rush?

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Dufe's picture

A spell interrupt would even

Dufe — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 22:46

A spell interrupt would even be fine with me.  DK's have one and it doesn't seem to help a whole lot.

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Josalin's picture

I love rooting warriors.

Josalin — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 15:03

I love rooting warriors. They're so cute when they're all helpless.

 

-Jos

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Gares of War's picture

Well, you are a good mage. 

Gares of War — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 13:23

Well, you are a good mage.  I can kill a bad mage >.>

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Dufe's picture

Warriors do need some kind

Dufe — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 11:59

Warriors do need some kind of a reasonable ranged dmg ability.  In Beta right now warriors are lucky to get more than 1k of dmg off on me . . . and that's when they catch me by surprise.

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saedo's picture

I don't think Trauma will

saedo — Wed, 09/03/2008 - 11:49

I don't think Trauma will override Mangle. I think with the new Debuff system, only the more powerful one will be active regards to raid dps. But both can be used still for their secondary effects if any (like threat).

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