Dragon got me to thinkin about the old days. In my travels I encountered basically 2 types of commanding officers. Ones that went to college then officer school and became "leaders" (not that I ever took a 2nd or 1st LT seriously), and then the "mustangers", guys that had hit SGT and then went to school to become an officer. I used to get into some serious arguments with the first type I mentioned.
"I want you to set your Dragon team in that gully and engage tanks as they come over the hill." Me says " Yea right buddy, I'm not fond of having my legs blown off when I launch this shoulder fired missile." Officer-" You gettin smart with me?" Me-" I sure as hell couldnt get any stupider." I used to get in a lot of trouble for my mouth. I lacked tact.
My favorite memory was of our grungy old 1st Sgt. I was in the company office one day and overheard a 1st LT trying to tell ol 1st SGT Stebbins how to do his job. 1st SGT said "Boy, when you get old enough to climb your way up these rockers (point's to collar), come back and see me. Till then get the hell out of my face." And down the hall was our full bird laughing so hard I thought he would piss himself.
Please note that what Tater listed is not in any particular order it is however what the Corps believes are the 14 leadership traits. I'd go list the principles too but they usually suffice.
As I also stated earlier, another big thing about USMC Leadership is the fact that they do tend to focus more on those beneath them.
Developers: "Our nerfs will blot out the sun." Paladins: "Then we will QQ in the shade."
I recommend you click "Arch scream" many times. What can I say, he's an inspiration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Yes; analogies, it turns out, can sometimes be used to draw parallels between things that are not exactly the same." - Ratgirl
Lunch break! Here's what I think makes a good leader (along with anecdotes from my experience leading raids the past two years):
1) Objectivity - to be able to step back and assess a situation without one's personal agenda or emotions sway their decisions. I'm guilty of not always being objective, but I do my best to make sure that any decisions I come to, will ultimately result in a better, more effective and efficient raid.
2) (again) Decisiveness - being able to come to a conclusion, for better or for worse. Simply being able to make a decision and give direction to the group is important, as many others have said better than I have.
3) Quick-thinking - to be able to fix a bad situation and/or come up with alternative means to the desired solution. I remember getting a BT raid off the ground by having alt tanks come in, existing tanks respec to dps/healing specs, and bringing in some bizarre class balances - and it worked fairly well, clearing up to and through ROS.
4) Being firm but gentle. I don't mean to imply inflexibility - a leader should always be flexible. However, they are ultimately the "leader" and as such, they should have a strong grasp of what the desired outcome of a situation is. That said, they shouldn't render themselves unapproachable either, and while being firm with their decisions they also have to be understanding.
5) Charisma. Let's face it, the most popular presidents we've had in the states (Clinton, Kennedy, Reagan, etc) have all been very charismatic and charming people, while the least popular (Bush Jr., Nixon) have been ... well, less than charming. I'm not getting into personal politics here, but suffice to say having a level of charisma certainly helps you to lead.
I know I have more, but that's all I can fit in for my lunch break.
At any rate, I always do my best whenever I end up having to lead a group, be it through BT, MH, TK, or even just a heroic instance.
I'll have to add my "how-to" guide on how to make a successful group - I know lots of people that bellyache because they "can't make a group for a heroic", but these same people that bellyache often end up in the same groups I organize. One part of it is certainly the fact that I'm a guild officer, but that can't be the only reason that I get groups made.
Part of asking yourself "what makes a great leader?" should also be "what does having a great leader result in?". Well, there is absolutely nothing wrong with citing Hitler as an example of an effective leader, because it makes us look at both sides of the coin. Leaders have the power to make both wonderful and horrible things happen, which is why we should not foolishly turn our backs on studying people like him that were able to rise to power and do awful things. Because if we don't, they will happen again...
I feel the best leaders have merely been (wo)men willing to stand up and do what needed to get done despite what others did or did not think. If your confidence is great enough in your goals, others WILL help you achieve them.
Adolf Hitler is a perfect example of a 'great leader'. Despite being one of the most evil men of the previous century (*cough*Stalin*cough*), Hitler was the greatest leader mankind has seen in many years.
He was:
Decisive - when the time came to take action
sympathetic - to the concerns and views of his people
strong - Never underestimate the respect and power gained through fear
Filled With Conviction - Despite his many faults, Adolf Hitler was a man of conviction. So strong was his conviction that he was able to use it to convince millions of others of his beliefs. The Jewish people didn't at first go calmly into slavery,death,etc because they were afraid. Many of them were truly convinced of the evil of 'their ways' and the wrongs ingrained in their blood. Despite the fact that Hitler's mother was half Jewish herself.
Keep in mind, I'm not a skinhead, nor am I a neo-nazi. However, that does not lessen the respect I have for Hitler's abilities as a leader. It's just too bad he wasn't accidentally dropped on his head at birth........from the empire state building.
My perspective is slanted from my time in the Corps but these are 2 that I always personally look for.
Never ask them to do something you Wouldn't otherwise do yourself. (i.e. your having to delegate it to them because you HAVE to do something else.)Something else that ties in with this, I HATE hypocrits >.>
Don't forget those under you. To borrow from an old Cavalry term; First your men, then your horse, then yourself. This was what Cav Officers were told to worry about at the end of the night. If you look out for those under you, they will be more willing to follow you and do what you ask.
Developers: "Our nerfs will blot out the sun." Paladins: "Then we will QQ in the shade."
Dragon got me to thinkin
Mashedtater — Sun, 09/07/2008 - 12:54Dragon got me to thinkin about the old days. In my travels I encountered basically 2 types of commanding officers. Ones that went to college then officer school and became "leaders" (not that I ever took a 2nd or 1st LT seriously), and then the "mustangers", guys that had hit SGT and then went to school to become an officer. I used to get into some serious arguments with the first type I mentioned.
"I want you to set your Dragon team in that gully and engage tanks as they come over the hill." Me says " Yea right buddy, I'm not fond of having my legs blown off when I launch this shoulder fired missile." Officer-" You gettin smart with me?" Me-" I sure as hell couldnt get any stupider." I used to get in a lot of trouble for my mouth. I lacked tact.
My favorite memory was of our grungy old 1st Sgt. I was in the company office one day and overheard a 1st LT trying to tell ol 1st SGT Stebbins how to do his job. 1st SGT said "Boy, when you get old enough to climb your way up these rockers (point's to collar), come back and see me. Till then get the hell out of my face." And down the hall was our full bird laughing so hard I thought he would piss himself.
'Yurtle the Turtle' By Dr.
jaibyrd — Sat, 09/06/2008 - 13:59'Yurtle the Turtle' By Dr. Seuss Read it. Here is a good example of why you do what the corps do, pay attention to those under your care.
Yes, I like to heal. No, I've never been shadow.
[effin double posted; ignore
Dragonspear — Sat, 09/06/2008 - 10:53[effin double posted; ignore this]
Please note that what Tater
Dragonspear — Sat, 09/06/2008 - 10:51Please note that what Tater listed is not in any particular order it is however what the Corps believes are the 14 leadership traits. I'd go list the principles too but they usually suffice.
As I also stated earlier, another big thing about USMC Leadership is the fact that they do tend to focus more on those beneath them.
Developers: "Our nerfs will blot out the sun."
Paladins: "Then we will QQ in the shade."
Let me break it down USMC
Mashedtater — Sat, 09/06/2008 - 08:51Let me break it down USMC style:
JJ DID TIE BUCKLE
JUSTICE, JUDGMENT, DEPENDABILITY, INITIATIVE, DECISIVENESS, TACT, INTEGRITY, ENTHUSIASM, BEARING, UNSELFISHNESS, COURAGE, KNOWLEDGE, LOYALTY, ENDURANCE..
G my favorite one of those
Sorreah — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 14:06G my favorite one of those is arbys i have always loved that board
http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~dmackay/troxed2.swf
My list- What Zoo and Dufe
Gares of War — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 13:44My list- What Zoo and Dufe said.
I personally take all my
garreth — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 13:26I personally take all my raid-leading advice from this guy:
http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~dmackay/troxed1.swf
I recommend you click "Arch scream" many times. What can I say, he's an inspiration.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yes; analogies, it turns out, can sometimes be used to draw parallels between things that are not exactly the same." - Ratgirl
Lunch break! Here's what I
Shihli — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 11:38Lunch break! Here's what I think makes a good leader (along with anecdotes from my experience leading raids the past two years):
1) Objectivity - to be able to step back and assess a situation without one's personal agenda or emotions sway their decisions. I'm guilty of not always being objective, but I do my best to make sure that any decisions I come to, will ultimately result in a better, more effective and efficient raid.
2) (again) Decisiveness - being able to come to a conclusion, for better or for worse. Simply being able to make a decision and give direction to the group is important, as many others have said better than I have.
3) Quick-thinking - to be able to fix a bad situation and/or come up with alternative means to the desired solution. I remember getting a BT raid off the ground by having alt tanks come in, existing tanks respec to dps/healing specs, and bringing in some bizarre class balances - and it worked fairly well, clearing up to and through ROS.
4) Being firm but gentle. I don't mean to imply inflexibility - a leader should always be flexible. However, they are ultimately the "leader" and as such, they should have a strong grasp of what the desired outcome of a situation is. That said, they shouldn't render themselves unapproachable either, and while being firm with their decisions they also have to be understanding.
5) Charisma. Let's face it, the most popular presidents we've had in the states (Clinton, Kennedy, Reagan, etc) have all been very charismatic and charming people, while the least popular (Bush Jr., Nixon) have been ... well, less than charming. I'm not getting into personal politics here, but suffice to say having a level of charisma certainly helps you to lead.
I know I have more, but that's all I can fit in for my lunch break.
At any rate, I always do my best whenever I end up having to lead a group, be it through BT, MH, TK, or even just a heroic instance.
I'll have to add my "how-to" guide on how to make a successful group - I know lots of people that bellyache because they "can't make a group for a heroic", but these same people that bellyache often end up in the same groups I organize. One part of it is certainly the fact that I'm a guild officer, but that can't be the only reason that I get groups made.
I like Dufe and Thezoo's
ALnwick — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 10:51I like Dufe and Thezoo's answers...
Decisiveness is key, the ability to delegate is important, not being afraid to be wrong or the bad guy is also noteworthy.
If I can put it simple I want a leader in tough situations that demand action to be a checkers player not a chess player.
"If I ever become a mummy, I'm going to have it so when somebody opens my lid, a boxing glove on a spring shoots out."
If Hitler hadn't been a
Shihli — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 10:15If Hitler hadn't been a genocidal, massmurdering fuckhead, he'd have been considered one of the greatest leaders in history.
That said ...
I'll post up my opinions on what makes a great leader later, when I'm not busy at work!
Part of asking yourself
karlizeth — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 10:13Part of asking yourself "what makes a great leader?" should also be "what does having a great leader result in?". Well, there is absolutely nothing wrong with citing Hitler as an example of an effective leader, because it makes us look at both sides of the coin. Leaders have the power to make both wonderful and horrible things happen, which is why we should not foolishly turn our backs on studying people like him that were able to rise to power and do awful things. Because if we don't, they will happen again...
Decisiveness in the face of
Pedran — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 09:47Decisiveness in the face of uncertainty.
I feel the best leaders have merely been (wo)men willing to stand up and do what needed to get done despite what others did or did not think. If your confidence is great enough in your goals, others WILL help you achieve them.
Adolf Hitler is a perfect example of a 'great leader'. Despite being one of the most evil men of the previous century (*cough*Stalin*cough*), Hitler was the greatest leader mankind has seen in many years.
He was:
Keep in mind, I'm not a skinhead, nor am I a neo-nazi. However, that does not lessen the respect I have for Hitler's abilities as a leader. It's just too bad he wasn't accidentally dropped on his head at birth........from the empire state building.
My perspective is slanted
Dragonspear — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 09:40My perspective is slanted from my time in the Corps but these are 2 that I always personally look for.
Never ask them to do something you Wouldn't otherwise do yourself. (i.e. your having to delegate it to them because you HAVE to do something else.)Something else that ties in with this, I HATE hypocrits >.>
Don't forget those under you. To borrow from an old Cavalry term; First your men, then your horse, then yourself. This was what Cav Officers were told to worry about at the end of the night. If you look out for those under you, they will be more willing to follow you and do what you ask.
Developers: "Our nerfs will blot out the sun."
Paladins: "Then we will QQ in the shade."
Having a plan for the
jaibyrd — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 09:38Having a plan for the future (more than a 4 year plan btw) of whatever group/organization that is being led
The ability to listen to imput
Making decisions based on the greater good
Yes, I like to heal. No, I've never been shadow.
Having Confidence Being
Thezoo — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 09:13Think that's mostly it for me
To be more helpful, here's
Dufe — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 08:50To be more helpful, here's some things that I think are usually good traits:
+3 Charisma modifier
Adwarflol — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 08:40+3 Charisma modifier helps.
=_
-----------------------------
Special with a CoH
living with you is like living in a living nightmare!
For me this depends 100% on
Dufe — Thu, 09/04/2008 - 08:35For me this depends 100% on who/what they're leading.