Rogue builds for 3.0 (preWotLK)
Ewiges — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 13:41
So with the background updater already downloading 3.0, we know its going to be coming within a few weeks. So I decided I was going to start making a 61 point talent build with the new talent changes.
I started working http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents2.html for the official Blizzard WotLK talent trees. I kept getting mid 70s for a PvE sword build. (combat of course) Anyways, I soon noticed relentless strikes is on there twice, not sure if this is a bug or not. Anyways, post any builds you come up with.
Saedo, can you verify some
Agoney — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 09:39Saedo, can you verify some stuff for me quick? This will be the raiding DPS spec I'll be messing around with for the last week or so.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIzAo0xZx
The basics:
-Never let SnD fall (via CttC Enven)
-Never let HfB fall
-Use a finisher at 4+ combo points.
I think my question would be more of what to do for an opener. I should be able to cheat and get 3 stacks of HfB before the fight begns. If thats the case, Id Ambush -> SnD -> Mutilate til 4cbs (or 5 with crit) -> rupture -> mutilate 4/5 -> envenom. That look about right?
Yes. Spec wise, just to make
saedo — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 10:31Yes.
Spec wise, just to make sure ya know.
Murder points you can move depending on instance you're in. Hyjal = blows, BT = meh, Sunwell = meh, Naxx = blows. lol But not much to move anyways, Fleet-Footed is the only other one I'd consider so prob doesn't matter too much.
Turn the Tables is your choice for personal max dps. Those points should switch to Master Poisoner for raid dps if there isn't an Elemental Shaman or Ret Paladin around. Or constantly judging for 500 Holy paladin around that's willing to take this off you. lol
The basics, just to make sure you have your priority right:
As for the opener, yes you are supposed to cheat! lol Stack HFB before the fight even starts. Um, as how to open. IF you must stealth, that works, Ambush -> SnD -> Mutilate -> 4+ finishers using priority system above. What's a little bit better is to just run in and Mutilate. Forget the stealth opener Ambush, cause:
Garrote Openers ftw!
Dragonspear — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 10:40Garrote Openers ftw!
Even for combat Garrote isn't
saedo — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 10:50Even for combat Garrote isn't best for "max dps". It's less energy efficient and requires stealth. A reason you would do it is cause of threat, it's a steady slow start instead of one big burst hit as your starter.
Sweet.. Seems like a fun spec
Agoney — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 10:37Sweet.. Seems like a fun spec to mess around with.
Ya it's like the most
saedo — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 10:47Ya it's like the most technically challenging spec.
The best rogues will top dps with this spec.
90% of the rogues will find it equal or below combat cause they just can't do it. lol
Or constantly judging for
garreth — Mon, 11/03/2008 - 10:34Eat a dick.
Well this is the current
SwordandMace — Sat, 10/18/2008 - 14:25Well this is the current build i'm using on my rogue
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?tal=00500...
It's very effective for me, since i like to pvp and pve. My dps went up by like, 500 or so? I use killing spree alot, works really well on bosses, a quick 10 hits that usually gives you back all your energy when you use your last 25 on it cause it tends to proc potency alot. Also, just for the record, Dismantle+Killing Spree=Lolz
With the new build, my
Ewiges — Wed, 10/01/2008 - 10:28With the new build, my current pre-WotLK combat build.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0252052000005015223100521251005000...
Probably gonna be exactly
saedo — Wed, 10/01/2008 - 10:37Probably gonna be exactly the same. Though the filler talents might be diff.
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Based on current changes,
saedo — Fri, 09/19/2008 - 20:23Based on current changes, this will be my spec on 3.0: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0252051000050155203100501251005000...
With hopes that Lightning Reflexes will get changed like they say it will.
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Here's what's prob gonna be
saedo — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:55Here's what's prob gonna be the Mutilate build at 70 if you're going there: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0052050000000000000000000000005313...
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Yeah, its a large ammount of
Ewiges — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:37Yeah, its a large ammount of energy no doubt, and was moved because of the high demand. Hopefully the combat tree gets reorganized again. With PTR coming up soon there should be another patch that clears up this stuff. Of course, I think we've all seen PTRs stay up into the "months" period.
And actually, Relentless
saedo — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:30And actually, Relentless Strikes is still worth it. It was pretty much the only mandatory talent in all PvE builds (11 points in assassination).
Now with this change, the mandatory is 5 points in to Subtle. Though it costs more, it does free up options into other trees.
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Also keep in mind, Lightning
saedo — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:28Also keep in mind, Lightning Reflexes is gonna get an overhaul too, they've said that they prob gonna put something for dps in it.
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One possible build I'm
saedo — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:26One possible build I'm considering is: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0252051000150150232100501200005000...
Armor pen is supposed to be changing to a % based thing and it hasn't been implemented on Beta yet.
Speculation has it depending on how it's done, it could be the best thing to have (or worst or just not as good).
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Ya, the PvP shit in the
Agoney — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:13Ya, the PvP shit in the combat tree is not not needed. Hopefully they'll do some re-working.
First off I'm hoping the
Ewiges — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:11First off I'm hoping the combat tree is changed. Its hard to tell between the differences of MMO's most updated and Blizzard most updated. At this point they make you waste a lot of points on crap you don't need in the t3/4 area. (imp sprint/kick/cooldowns) Also I'm hoping relentless goes back down to a 1 point talent. I really don't think vigor is worth it in PvE. The 10 extra energy is still only 10 energy whether it is a 30 second fight or a 10 minute boss fight. Now if you find yourself energycapped a lot, then it might be useful. Otherwise to me it is only worth 1/4 of a sinister strike.
Altho, your right, 5 pts
Agoney — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:04Altho, your right, 5 pts into relentless strikes, might be better off elsewhere.
Use this talent calc wigs,
Agoney — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 14:03Use this talent calc wigs, believe its the most up to date
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=
For level 70, this would prob be what I'd do:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0252052000140150232100501000005320...
Reasoning, even if you max out prey of the weak, it will still be less damage then Lethality. 30% inc rupture damage. Killing Spree has potential, but is way to deep for level 70, imo. It'll fight in nicely at 80.
Also, with relentless
Ewiges — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 13:56Also, with relentless strikes changing from a 1 point to a 5 point talent (unless this is a bug) is it still worth it?
Ahh yeah, forgot about the
Ewiges — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 13:56Ahh yeah, forgot about the static regen change. Well it still comes out to 30 energy, shouldn't be a problem.
Anyways, using http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue now, they have the proper vigor change.
Doing some math, it looks like switching to an offhand for murderspree might not be worth it. If I'm not mistaken, its a 1second GCD for the weapon when you switch it. Have to switch before and after = 2seconds for a 2.5second move.
By the time you have murder
Shihli — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 13:47By the time you have murder spree, your energy will not be "ticking" anymore.
In Wrath, mana and energy gains are a far more gradual thing. Instead of getting, say, 10mp5 ... you get 1 mp0.5. That is, you get 1 mana per half-second as opposed to a lump of 10 mana every 5 seconds - this way it feels far more natural and gradual as opposed to "ticking" recovery. The same will apply with energy.
Likewise, rage and runic power depletion when out-of-combat is far more gradual, instead of losing it in lumps you lose it in individual points at a gradual pace.
Also, I am trying to figure
Ewiges — Wed, 09/10/2008 - 13:43Also, I am trying to figure out the usefulness of murder spree in a PvE situation. Obviousely that is 10 hits on a target in 5 seconds (says it attacks with both weapons). Is it wise to start farming a slow off-hand weapon? Make a macro to switch weapons, murder spree, switch back. Can we attack during Murder Spree? Don't really wanna cap my energy go into a murder spree and lose 2 tics of energy. Let me know what you guys think, I haven't read much on the beta about this one.