Running fist/sword for raid??
Felsteel — Tue, 12/09/2008 - 16:03
Ok im new to theroycrafting cause i still have alot to learn, but from reading up a bit i was thinking on trying to raid with a fist/sword combo with points in both close quarters combat(CQC) and sword spec for both the crit and extra sword proc.(this is assumeing that the fist wep is all around better than any sword available for Main hand) From what i have read when my off-hand(sword) procs the Sword Spec, the free atk is made by my main hand(fist wep), thus if im also CQC spec, that [free atk] will also recive the extra 5% crit from CQC. So with all the hit/exp and crit caps meet(again assumeing optimal situations and gear) would the increased crit wich leads to bigger SS, bigger Sword spec atks, and with SS glyph more CPs be worth the trade off of giveing up the main hand sword chance at a free swing? FEEDBACK PLS (for some reason i cant post the link here for the suggested build but its a 12/54/5 build)
question
huen (not verified) — Sun, 02/15/2009 - 04:52Ok i understand that sword/dagger/fist is nice but what if you want toleave out the sword and just stick with fists/daggers ? thats what im trying to do but, the 4 points in sword specialization wouldn't benefit me so what would u suggest i put those other 4 into because without it im short continuation in the tree.
yeah just use it for fillers
Felsteel — Sun, 02/15/2009 - 23:42yeah just use it for fillers for now, endurance , imp kick or sprint and then further down the tree either unfair advantage or throwing spec. when patch hits we will be putting points in lightning reflexes.
It's 4 filler points if you
saedo — Sun, 02/15/2009 - 11:59It's 4 filler points if you run single weapon spec.
new spec prop,
Felsteel — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 11:27i just picked up a fairly nice fist wep the other day in H Gundrak, i wanted to see where this spec would take me, http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fheb0xZMgV0x0xaru0xRtb, with a 5s/5r/5e rotation. since i am using evis would it be worth putting the points in it for the extra 20%?
FAIL FAIL FAIL. NO!!!!!!!!! S
saedo — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:05FAIL FAIL FAIL.
NO!!!!!!!!!
Sorry. First point, it's not worth it to put it in Evis. Even if it's in your rotation, it's a terrible move still and only used to blow combo points away.
Second, the 3 points you took it from was Relentless Strikes. That's a major major fail. Those 5 points are MANDATORY in every PvE spec, regardless if how you fuck up the rest of the spec. lol
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eb0xZMgV0x0xaru0xRtx
wow ok just testing the
Felsteel — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:32wow ok just testing the waters here lol.
/sigh
Atar — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:39/sigh
Relentless Strikes was the
saedo — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:37Relentless Strikes was the big failure. lol You must must always have that. Test anything you want but keep 5 points in that. lol
shut it atar this is how i
Felsteel — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:41shut it atar this is how i learn, lol
Where are you doing
saedo — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:54Where are you doing research? If you say wow forums. /wrists.
Better visit: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/
ive been reading on EJ but i
Felsteel — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 13:22ive been reading on EJ but i do not get much time to read cause i do it at work, so i have to watch out for the boss and all. most of it im trying to figure it out myself so thats why i ask all of these questions. Any other time i have aside from work i spend in game trying to get rep, upgrade my gear, and make money.
:(
Atar — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:43:(
still <3 you :D hahaha
Felsteel — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:45still <3 you :D hahaha
http://www.wowhead.com/?talen
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:37http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eb0xZMgV0x0xaru0xRtx ok this is the original after i took the 1 point from sword spec and added it to lethality.
lawl, I think this is a copy
saedo — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:44lawl, I think this is a copy of the 2nd build I linked. lol
well GOT DAN, i wasnt far off
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:55well GOT DAN, i wasnt far off only by 1 point. /sigh facepalm. well i did say i was noob at this stuff LOL.
"well GOT DAN, i wasnt far
Aidin — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 13:37"well GOT DAN, i wasnt far off only by 1 point. /sigh facepalm. well i did say i was noob at this stuff LOL."
Don't you sweat it Fail...you keep pickin Saedo's brain, and you'll be tearing shit up in no time. I was a lame, last in dps rogue with no clue when I started trying PvE... I was kicking ppls asses who had me outgeared in no time. I learned so much from Saedo since he's been with us, I even hit him up last night for a question I had re: some specifics on hit cap ...lol
Keep up the great work Fail...sounds like you and I are doing much the same thing. I've been theorycrafting my ass off...pouring over mountains of info on Elemental Shammies. ;)
lol just go with the 1st
saedo — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 13:00lol just go with the 1st spec if you wanna respec. The 2nd one isn't all that bad either if you choose not to.
yeah ima try that spec out
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 13:06yeah ima try that spec out see how i like it, i also read on EJ that a rouge should have a sword off hand if they are speced combat.
Only if the sword is better
saedo — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 13:14Only if the sword is better than any other offhand you can obtain. The problem with swords atm is itemization. They're all at 1.5-1.6 speeds. 1.6 speed is kinda slow for us. 1.5 is meh, ok I suppose.
But look at daggers, they can come in 1.3-1.4 speeds. Good for those Poison and Combat Potency procs. This is a reason [39714] is actually the best OH for combat in game. Though not far behind is [40491].
Another notable mention is [37856], again due to speed giving it a dps boost, it makes it one of the better OHs than most if not all Naxx-10 stuff.
Just to throw out there,
Agoney — Mon, 12/15/2008 - 14:44Just to throw out there, granted, random loot is random, but i got x2 of the paper cutters in one run of Heroic Halls of lightning. So if you do decide to play with those, run some HHoL.
i forsee a LOT of gold going
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 14:54i forsee a LOT of gold going into respecs for raid as i get diff weps and try this stuff out, with dags here, swords there, and fist over yonder. also could you point me to a site where it lists the caps for hit,exp,whatever else and what they are, for WotLK and even explians the math envolved. ive been playing my rouge for about a solid year now and i really want to dig into it now.
In a span of 3 days cause of
saedo — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 15:23In a span of 3 days cause of drops, I went from Sword/Sword, Fist/Sword, Fist/Dagger, Fist/Sword. And also threw in mongoose on weapons I used for a good day.
I guess go here for a quick summary: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/
Just remember not to gear focusing on caps. Just gear with the best gear, and know how the caps affect stats.
QQ QQ QQ I respec 3-4 times
Aidin — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 15:22QQ QQ QQ I respec 3-4 times per week and raid hasn't even started yet!
http://elitistjerks.com/ the all knowing center of the universe.
the second build that you
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 10:42the second build that you posted was very close to what the one i had made with the exception of 2 points in endurance and that extra 1 in sword spec. as soon as i hit 80(wich will be sometime this week) i will start playing with specs.
Huh, then you chose to give
saedo — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 10:54Huh, then you chose to give up Lethality for Endurance? Def not dps talents. Anyways, the first build I linked is probably best based on the current theorycraft. All you need are good weapons to spec into.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talen
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:27http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xbZMgV0x0xaru0xRte0b0h there that was the one i proposed BUT now looking at the others it is not good at all lol :)
Fail. Didn't link yours.
saedo — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:30Fail. Didn't link yours. You re-linked my first one. lol Hit the "Link to this Build" link before you copy and paste the URL of your changes.
yeah i noticed that, i went
Felsteel — Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:34yeah i noticed that, i went to edit it and DF site denied me.
The build is definitely
saedo — Tue, 12/09/2008 - 16:47The build is definitely wrong. And your points a bit scattered. lol
Forget all that junk. From now on, think of the Combat spec as a single entity. You will only really tweak the spec based on available weapons you can obtain. Whether it'd be Sword/Sword, Sword/Fist, Sword/Dagger, Sword/Mace, Fist/Sword, Fist/Fist, Fist/Dagger, Fist/Mace, Mace/Sword, Mace/Fist, Mace/Dagger, Mace/Mace. Did I forget anything?
Nowadays, if you look at it pure specialization wise it's Sword = Fist > Mace. Mace still sucks, but don't avoid specifically just because of that, [41383] is one of the best pre-raid weapons.
So what really determine what spec you should be is itemization. What can you get? Spec around the best items whether it'd be fist, sword, mace, or dagger (offhands only for combat).
As for these hybrid weapon type builds, here's 2, use filler points at your discretion:
First note about both, if you go sword + non-sword, only put 4 points in Sword Spec, that last 1% is usually less dps than the 1 point in your other spec, or anything else you can obtain dps wise.
Anyways, on the first build, it's a Serrated Blades / Rupture build. Considered very powerful nowadays due to the higher armors and coupled with the T7 2 set Rupture bonus. The cycle is simple, mostly 4+s/5r. Nothing else, the goal here is to maximize rupture uptimes with SnD always up. Throw in more SS if you're stuck with the old rupture still up.
The 2nd build is supposed to be very close, but possibly behind. It's based on Lethality and crits. With ruthlessness a 3 finisher cycle is possible, you'd go 5s/5r/5e.