Downfall Class Requirements

garreth — Wed, 03/05/2008 - 13:43

This is just a quick note on what classes are approximately needed in Downfall raids:

1 x Highly-Geared and Dedicated Retribution Paladin.
Must be able to raid upwards of four nights a week.
Must have T5 or equivalent S3 pvp gear.
BT and Hyjal attunement a must (until 2.4, of course)

1 x Highly-Geared, Grid-using, Heal-Loving Restoration Shaman
Must be able to commit to upwards of four nights a week or raiding
1800 +heal minimum unbuffed
Must not be a douchehat

1 x 1k+ spell damage, smart and competitive Shadow Priest
Must be able to commit to four nights a week of raiding with 100% attendance
Must be highly geared in badge and T5 equivalent gear
Must be completely self-sufficient and dedicated to raid-utility

Classes we are currently absolutely full on:
Prot/Fury/Arms Warriors
Holy Paladins
Rogues
Mages
Warlocks
Hunters
Feral/Resto druids

We appreciate your understanding that we have very specific class needs in raid. However, we are always looking for good people, who may or may not get a raid spot. No matter how "casual" you are, we demand that you know your class, have top social grace and constantly strive to improve yourself.

I think saedo is saying,

Barqz — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 12:57

I think saedo is saying, melee dps wont ever want to reach the hit cap of 440something. In the long run it starts to hurt dps more. 250-300 is a nice roundabout.

Live Every Moment, Seize Everyday

No, all I'll ever say is

saedo — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 13:09

No, all I'll ever say is that's where the hit caps are and be aware of them.

What hit value you "should" be at depends on what gear you can get, and probably what class you are.

Being obsessed with a magic number is never good. Various stats bring dps and neglecting them just to bring one stat to what you "feel" is good is the wrong way to think.

Hit is just usally the cheapest dps stat you can obtain. The best bang for your buck. That's all. If a piece of gear offers you to 2000 more AP, 2000 more spell damage, or whatever for 1% off your magic hit number, hell maybe even all your hit. You probably should do it. Yea an extreme example, but trying to highlight that tradeoffs exist.

Though it's probably more costly for other classes anyways. A miss/resist means wasted cast time, wasted mana, wasted rage, etc. For rogues, past the specials cap, it's just a bit of a wasted chance of a 1-1.5 sec worth of white damage and proc chance.

I'd like to point out a few

karlizeth — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 12:41

I'd like to point out a few things (it's been a few weeks since this thread was started so sorry if it's outdated).

1) Where the hell has vossa been? Are we to the point where we actually need to start looking for some resto droods? Both Vossa and Kati were raiding as resto back when we still had Closer and Keshini running with us. I'd really like to see us w/ more than one consistent (Katie) resto druid.

2) I think generally the problem with a moonkin in a raid is not that they are actually a poor addition, but rather that the player is commonly undergeared and lacks skill. I believe Vossa has been playing wow enough to be a skilled moonkin druid, although I have not had an "omg" moment when he's had his moment to shine. Where you not truly raid spec'd? Is your gear not on par w/ the rest of the caster dps? What gives?

Vossa posted his grandmother

saedo — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 12:43

Vossa posted his grandmother died and had to go back to Sweden for the funeral.

Edit: Found the thread http://www.downfallguild.org/node/1299

Pretty sure Arms Warrior, MM

Dragonspear — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 11:56

Pretty sure Arms Warrior, MM and BM hunters and non Precision Specced Ret paladin's cap @ 142

Surv Hunters and Paladins who take Precision cap at 95

These are both assuming a non draenei since I don't know the exact amount of hit rating required to attain +1% hit and cannot go figure it out atm.
~Legendary Nobody

My Pre-25 man raid healing

Ardea — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 11:24

My Pre-25 man raid healing set is close to complete so I have been picking up Moonkin gear =D Maybe I will go balance to 80... unless someone was a healbot for instance grinding.

I always considered anywhere

Derchlon — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 11:18

I always considered anywhere in the 8-9% range to be good. One night, I tried scaling down my hit rating for Kael, and I watched a shot miss for the first time I can remember since Kara. Couple Item swaps, and I was good to go again.

Pretty sure Arms Warrior, MM

Dragonspear — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 11:03

Pretty sure Arms Warrior, MM and BM hunters and non Precision Specced Ret paladin's cap @ 142

Surv Hunters and Paladins who take Precision cap at 95

These are both assuming a non draenei since I don't know the exact amount of hit rating required to attain +1% hit and cannot go figure it out atm.
~Legendary Nobody

Basically from what I

saedo — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 11:08

Basically from what I gather, the hit cap for physical dps is 9% = 141.93, rounded up to 142.

Dual Wielding incurs a 19% miss rate penalty, bringing that cap to 28% = 441.56, rounded up to 442.

Of course, talents and racials and debuffs brings that cap down for you whenever applicable.

Oh and 1% hit = 15.77 hit rating.

Again, there's no direct

Shihli — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 10:54

Again, there's no direct moonkin hate.

But where the hell would we put one? And no, Vossa, you're resto - we have a hard enough ****ing time getting healers anymore, we can't stand to lose another one because of a niche raid position that is typically filled with other dps'ers.

Feral brings more than moonkin if only for one reason - VALID and GREAT offtank and good dps when not tanking. Moonkin cannot perform two functions with one spec, not at our position in endgame.

This thread just got me

Derchlon — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 10:37

This thread just got me thinking, a little.

Assuming Hunter Hit cap at 132,

1% to hit from Draenei racial = 16 hit rating
3% to hit from talents = 48 hit rating
3% to hit from Moonkin = 48 hit rating
Total hit rating = 112

132 -112 = 20 hit rating from gear to be hit capped. Thats practically one piece of gear.

Or just eat a [Spicy Hot

saedo — Tue, 03/25/2008 - 10:44

Or just eat a [Spicy Hot Talbuk] and you need no hit at all from gear.

But I thought your cap was 142.

Also,

1% to hit from Draenei racial = 15.77 hit rating
3% to hit from talents = 47.31 hit rating
3% to hit from Moonkin = 47.31 hit rating

Total = 110.39

Can we get over hte

starstalker — Thu, 03/06/2008 - 06:33

Can we get over hte moonkin hatred and try one out already?

Vossa points out the 3% to hit. Even though he never specced it before, I'd make it a requirement. Its been pointed out that people at this level should be hit capped; not entirely true. Hunters T6 has no +hit, but the T5 did. If I ever got into the position to move to entirely T6, I would need to make up that +hit somewhere, and 3% to hit from moonkin could save me from having to respec to the lower-damage output of a survival hunter. Rogues, while not hit capped either, would just land that many more hits, resulting in that much more dps. Kybosh and Turth, afaik are not hit capped either.

And for the casters in the moonkin's group, 5% spell crit is nothing to scoff at. And I disagree that a resto druid is a better fit than a moonkin (provided we have the requisite 7 healers available). I'd rather see another resto shamen/CoH Priest come into raid than another resto druid. Yes, bringing one is great for the tank group, in the majority of encounters I've seen in BT, group heals > single heals for raid healing.

/flings poop at Garreth

A feral druid does not bring

convertibull — Thu, 03/06/2008 - 02:52

A feral druid does not bring nearly as much to a raid as a moonkin. People, although they may be hit capped, will be able to remove 3% hit on their gear for other dps increasing stats such as crit or attack power. Keep in mind also that Imp FF is a debuff on the mob, and not a group buff and will therefor apply to all hunters, warriors, rogues, enhance shamans, ret pallies(and anything I missed that uses physical damage). Insect swarm is a great utility, not for its DPS, but for the sheer fact that it gives our tanks and anyone that pulls aggro 2% avoidance thus saving our healers' mana that much more. Moonkin aura in a group with paladins and mages will create a ton of regen for the paladins and they are talking about an Imp LotP type effect that will restore mana to party members on spell crit. A moonkin should be able to pull the same DPS as a Spriest if played correctly. I have always been a huge advocate for moonkins in raid because of the great utility they provide for people and nothing would make me happier than seeing a fuzzy ownlchickenogre in Downfall.

Honestly, no reason to bring

Agoney — Wed, 03/05/2008 - 20:37

Honestly, no reason to bring a moonkin. The buffs they bring arent worth the spot, imo. A resto druid or feral druid is much better for raid.

Moonkins, just no 1. People

Cisper — Wed, 03/05/2008 - 20:28

Moonkins, just no

1. People SHOULD BE HIT CAPPED at this level of content.
2. They're insufficient
3. Never seen a good one, doubt I ever will
4. They're shit and fat and a fucking owl

Ps. Vossa ily tho :-(

The boomkin goes in my group

Dikymo — Wed, 03/05/2008 - 19:22

The boomkin goes in my group along with my elemental shaman. All will be right in the world.

Secretary vice president to the vice president's secretary of the department of redundancy department

Well, I'll be back active

Morica — Wed, 03/05/2008 - 19:16

Well, I'll be back active quite soon (Getting married on th 15th, so around the 24th) and 4 nights a week sounds great to me.

PEW PEW INSECT SWARM!!! and

Vossa — Wed, 03/05/2008 - 13:57

PEW PEW INSECT SWARM!!! and imp feraie fire thats 3% more hit to EVERYONE in raid, would allow some of the dps to take off some hit gear and do more dmg.

.....i could be that moonkin <3